Curse

BahamutKaiser · Dec 13, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Amen.

Gingetsuryuu · Dec 13, 2006, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Firstly, I'd like to mention the lack of proper illusion type spells.
Imagine Illusionary Creature, that "summons" a very large and mean looking creature, that deals a large amount of damage, but once it wears off and disapears, the damage it had done is negated. Kinda like something an enemy sees, and something that an enemy thinks attacks it, but when it disapears, the enemy realises it was an illusion.

Secondly, Area affect enchantments and Area affect Hexes. Weak, but Area effect :P

Thirdly, some hexes have ann affect like the next time the enemy does something, something happens. How about Enchantments like that, for instance. The next enemy that hits you, gets knocked down.

Fourthly, flanking and attacks from behind. Assassins deserve more damage with attacks from behind, and more shadow steps that put them behind the enemy, and warriors deserve flanking bonus imho :P

BahamutKaiser · Dec 13, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41

There are Area of Effect hexes, a good few of them, learn necromancer and elementist.

There are punishement spells in the game, Backfire, Price of Failure, Soul Leech, and there are enchantments which knock enemies down if they hit you, it is Called Shield of Judgement.

Since most attacks done on a running enemy are from behind, and chase is a normal part of gameplay in GW, attacks done from behind are too easy. There are already plenty of skills which deal additional effects if the enemy is moving or casting, which is off their guard, from behind is a mute point, but could be added as another trigger to certain skills which trigger on running enemies.

As a writers suggestion, everyone who wants to make ideas owes it to the community to know what they are talking about, if you can't recognize the capabilities already in the game, your not going to have much to contribute to or comment on "Things Missing from Exsisting Professions".

mkinney · Dec 14, 2006, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gingetsuryuu

Firstly, I'd like to mention the lack of proper illusion type spells.
Imagine Illusionary Creature, that "summons" a very large and mean looking creature, that deals a large amount of damage, but once it wears off and disapears, the damage it had done is negated. Kinda like something an enemy sees, and something that an enemy thinks attacks it, but when it disapears, the enemy realises it was an illusion.

I really like this idea ( sounds liek an Illusion based character from City of Heroes) so the damage is real to the enemy, and its real enough to kill them but after a while the pet will go away and all the damage which it influcted is resorted...

this type of power would have to be its primary attitude, seeing how there would be a massive amount of r/n/rits using a zerg method with pets. (esp necros).

att:
Mirages (primary): power of thier illusions cast; includes pet(s) damage and level of pet

Refraction: energy management/ with a low end damage attached to it

Haptics: 'touch' ranged spells ( not skills) which are defensive, basic 1 target damage migration spells. cant cast on self

.....
I cant think of a 4 type of skill for this class. but you get the idea... toon is a caster of sorts with no real damage, except for its main att.. the rest is supportive ( may need more inorder to be a well rounded member for group,av,ab,ra,ta,gvg...etc)

draxynnic · Dec 14, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Remember, I'd prefer to keep actual concept classes out of this thread and stick to the 'building blocks'. If something in this thread inspires you to make one, please create a new thread so it can be discussed properly without hijacking this one.

Gingetsuryuu · Dec 14, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

BahamutKaiser: I admit I don't know much about all the skill, but you're also slightly misunderstanding me.

I did not know there are enchantments and hexes like that, most likely because while I was looking, I was looking for cheap fast cover hexes/enchantments. (And I WAS primarilay looking for hexes

)

Attacks from behind are not neciceraly chasing someone down, it could b flanking. In my opinion its unfair to not give assassins a bonus to attacks from behind, especialy since that, acording to the sense of assassins, is what they're suposed to do. IMHO, giving a bonus would make an assassin very effective in a team against a tank, maneuvering behind the enemy and hitting them.

Shield of Judgement is nice, but is elite, has a large recharge, and is an eare affect enchantment, also I'm talking about enchantment "reflections" of skills like Clumsiness and Diversion, that specificaly triggers on only one action. As I said "The NEXT enemy that attacks you is knocked down." or "The next spell cast against you {by an enemy} is reflected back against that enemy" with next being the keyword. The only one I could find was Hex Breaker. You could say Divine Intervention and some other monk enchantments are also like it(Althought its more protective than agressive). Nightfall added Balthazar's Pendulum and two other skills like that for monk. And then we add Mirror of Ice. Thats a total of four enchantments and a stance, and three of the enchantments are castable on other enemies. They cover being knocked down, fatal damage, and normal damage. Non targetable covers spells, and the stance covers hexes.

Note: This information was cathered using the keyword "the next", using browser search of skill description listings.

Also, I don't know every skill in the game, and I'm just as likely to read up the entire Wiki listing of every spell in the game before every post, as I am to read through a 20 page post. :P I'd like being able to do that, but my short attention span gets the better of me. I cnahnged my ways slightly though, using skill listing and search, not perfect, but close.

Gordon Ecker · Dec 15, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Skill types that don't have any professions focused on them:
Glyphs
Signets
Touch Skills
Wards
Wells
I'm not saying that all of these skill types are good material to build a profession around, but they are skill types that no profession is specialised in.

Things clearly in the domain of one of the existing professions but currently missing from their skill sets:
(retracted) A ranged AoE lightning damage Air Magic Spell
(retracted) A multi-target Spear Attack
(retracted) An elite Lead Attack (it's the only existing skill type without an elite)
Generic Attack Skills that can be used with any weapon
Generic Ranged Attack Skills that can be used with any ranged weapon

BahamutKaiser · Dec 15, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I don't care how uneducated you are, but your not contributing much if you don't know what your talking about, thanks for the bordom though.

As for Glyphs and Wards, and Wells, they are class specific, and obviously the profession that utilizes it is the profession that focuses on them.....

Need I remind, this is not a thread about professions, it is a thread about "Things Missing From Exsisting Professions". Therefore, ideas for Classes focusing on certain skills, more of exsisting skills, elaboration on a class using one of these new skills, and creation of new skills using exsisting abilities and functions are not part of the discussion.

Also, it is important to note the division of skill functions in different attributes, Marksmenship offers multi target and multi shot abilities, Spears don't, Fire, Ice and Earth offer AoE damage, Lightning offers armor penetration. The diversity and limitation of different spells and attributes exsists as a balance of capabilities limiting a class from empowering every kind of spell in the game with one attribute. Thus there are no AoE and DoT lightning spells, because Lightning has an advantage against a single target, and Fire is designed to deal effective group damage.

An Imbalanced elaboration of abilities already in the game is not something missing from exsisting professions, that is something lacking, for a balanced reason, from a certain attribute.

In case all of that went over your head, if any class can do it already in any way shape or form, it doesn't belong in this thread, this isn't about what a new class can focus on, or which of these abilities would make a good profession, or which attributes lack certain abilities in other attributes, this is about totaly new functions and abilities not exsistant in the game as a whole.

Please respect the topic and take unrelated material to an appropriate thread, or make one, I do not care.

Dean Harper · Dec 15, 2006, 05:11 AM // 05:11

i think we need a buffing class that, unlike the Paragon, uses sustained hexes/enchantments to buffer allie's different effects on others (conditions/enchants/hexes) it would also be a long range fighter that uses some sort of throwing object, such as a bladed boomerang. I posted this idea before, but it was shutdown because it didnt serve a distinct and prominent purpose. However, i think that it would be nice for us to ahve a class that would buffer others, using a new type of skill. I also saw an interesting idea about "stringing" enchantments and linking them to different party members. With this type of enchant, however, the benefit would be balanced so as to start working only when it is on a certain number of players, and distributes a moderate amount of benefit to them. Of course, there would have to be at semi-large cast time for these sustained enchants. They would also need to have a new kind of requirement to keep going, such as allies energy or health cannot drop below 25% or something like that. Its still a work in progress, but i would appreciate it if you guys could expand on this idea. Thanks a lot!

-Dean

Gordon Ecker · Dec 15, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

I don't care how uneducated you are, but your not contributing much if you don't know what your talking about, thanks for the bordom though.

As for Glyphs and Wards, and Wells, they are class specific, and obviously the profession that utilizes it is the profession that focuses on them.....

Need I remind, this is not a thread about professions, it is a thread about "Things Missing From Exsisting Professions". Therefore, ideas for Classes focusing on certain skills, more of exsisting skills, elaboration on a class using one of these new skills, and creation of new skills using exsisting abilities and functions are not part of the discussion.

Also, it is important to note the division of skill functions in different attributes, Marksmenship offers multi target and multi shot abilities, Spears don't, Fire, Ice and Earth offer AoE damage, Lightning offers armor penetration. The diversity and limitation of different spells and attributes exsists as a balance of capabilities limiting a class from empowering every kind of spell in the game with one attribute. Thus there are no AoE and DoT lightning spells, because Lightning has an advantage against a single target, and Fire is designed to deal effective group damage.

An Imbalanced elaboration of abilities already in the game is not something missing from exsisting professions, that is something lacking, for a balanced reason, from a certain attribute.

In case all of that went over your head, if any class can do it already in any way shape or form, it doesn't belong in this thread, this isn't about what a new class can focus on, or which of these abilities would make a good profession, or which attributes lack certain abilities in other attributes, this is about totaly new functions and abilities not exsistant in the game as a whole.

Please respect the topic and take unrelated material to an appropriate thread, or make one, I do not care.

1. (retracted)
2. Draxynnic specifically said "Not everything here necassarily has to go on a new profession". Illusions fit the concept of Mesmers and Assassins and stealth fits the concepts of Assassins, Rangers and Mesmers.
3. Shouts were the exclusive domain of Warriors until they changed the skill type of the pet calls, Rituals were the exclusive domain of Ritualists until they added Ritualists and Adrenal skills were the exclusive domain of Warriors until they added Paragons. There's more Warrior shouts than Glyphs, Wards or Wells, but I wouldn't call Warriors "focused on shouts".
4. Every martial weapon except spears has a multi-target attack or a single-target attack with splash damage against secondary targets.
5. I didn't say anything about armor penetration. Air magic has PBAoE cold damage spells without armor penetration and Channeling Magic has ranged AoE lightning damage spells without armor penetration. Earth Magic, Fire Magic, Water Magic, Blood Magic, Curses, Smiting Prayers and Domination Magic all have straightforward ranged AoE damage spells, while Channeling Magic, Death Magic and Soul Reaping all have conditional or otherwise non-standard ranged AoE damage spells. Air Magic is the only damage-heavy caster attribute with no ranged AoE damage spells. I don't see why a ranged AoE lightning damage Air Magic spell would be inherently overpowered and impossible to balance.

Crom The Pale · Dec 15, 2006, 09:49 AM // 09:49

I think the list that the OP has assembled is getting very near complete and that is one reason people are starting to pick up on things that exists in the the current profs and make it a focus of a new proff.

Note: this is not about what skills are missing from existing proffesions but what the existing proffesions simple can not do that a new one could. A fine line perhaps but one we are trying to walk.

The only missing idea I can come up with is a class with control over the envirionment. I don't mean fire/water/earth/air. I am talking about the actual map and its terrain.

For example in the shiverpeaks he would be able to create avalanches and summon snow beasts.
In the forest he could make the trees walk and birds could dive bomb on command.
In the desert he could create quicksand that would swallow foes whole.

I know this sounds like just another spell caster, but this class would only be able to use the environment he's standing in. ie he cant summon a frost beast in the desert.

By affecting the terrain of the map he would have great crowd control and be able to create enviromental effects that would help or hinder.

hhmm... I really did tell myself that I would not build a new proff here....lol

So what is missing from the current professions is enviroment manipulation.

draxynnic · Dec 15, 2006, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Okay... I've put everything in, but I think some of the recent crop have been a little frivolous. While I stated that something new that could just as easily go into an existing profession rather than a new one, any such additions should be big additions to the player's options. The intent of this list is not to form an index of individual skill requests (which some of these are approaching) but more general concepts. There probably is room for a list indexing skill suggestions, but I'm not going to volunteer to manage it.

On the other hand, taking an existing concept from a profession and expanding it is specifically counted as fair game - after all, that's what the Paragon and Ritualist did, and they certainly work as new professions. However, please do try to be serious about your suggestions. A profession based around warding could work. A profession based around glyphs, not so well: Glyphs are there as a tool to support regular spellcasting, and however many glyphs you have, sooner or later you have to cast a spell for them to actually do anything.

The gripping hand is that both of these are fine lines to walk. Just try not to be too silly - the purpose of this list is to provide inspiration, not to make the list as long as possible. Every suggestion that goes in 'just because' could be one more that distracts someone from the really good ideas.

Also, to throw out a challenge of my own: Generic melee attack skills do exist - most attack skills in the Strength and Tactics lines don't care what weapon you're using.

BahamutKaiser · Dec 15, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

This is not about classes at all, old or new, this is about abilities not exsistant on exsisting classes. If you have an original variation on exsisting skills that is fine, but a repeat on exsisting skills isn't original.

And I didn't call you anything Gordon, nor anyone else, I refered to Gings defense about not knowing what was available. And I don't care if you wern't paying enough attention to recognize that either.

ON TOPIC!

Gordon Ecker · Dec 16, 2006, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Yeah, I misinterpreted it because your post was immediately after mine and specifically referred to glyphs and wards. Based on Draxynnic's clarification, I'm retracting "single missing skill from an existing profession" part.

I could see a profession with a primary attribute that provides energy whenever you use a glyph, lets you stack multiple glyphs or provides some other glyph-related benefit. They could add spells (either for Elementalists or some hypothetical new glyph-focused profession) with conditional effects that trigger if used while under the effects of a glyph. I don't think we'll ever see a profession focused exclusively on wards, but I could see a profession focused partially on wards. I could see a profession focused on Glyphs, Wards and Signets, but I don't want to go off-topic. I don't think we'll ever see other professions gain more wells than Necromancers, but it is a skill type that isn't getting much attention.

That does bring up something else currently missing from existing skills ...
- Spells with conditional effects that trigger if they're cast while under the effect of a glyph.

Crom The Pale · Dec 16, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Ecker

That does bring up something else currently missing from existing skills ...
- Spells with conditional effects that trigger if they're cast while under the effect of a glyph.

A spell for extra damage while using Glyph of Elemental Power?

One for energy regain after casting with Glyph of Essence?

Adding a boost to spells for using Glyphs makes little sence since the glyph itself is a boost for spells.

On another hand spells that give you a benifit if your hexed while casting might ruin mesmers/necros day.

As to whats missing from current professions, its all been said.
Just keep this thread alive and hope they read the list

BahamutKaiser · Dec 22, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Great job at sorting the list, it makes it much easier to distinguish and recognize abilities.

Just a minor one I discovered today, perhaps somewhat of a repeat, but an attribute which offers a passive chance to retaliate against attacks.

I.E. 1% chance to retaliate per point in (said attribute). This may only work against melee attacks or adjacent foes unless the character uses a range or mid-ranged weapon, like a whip.

System_Crush · Dec 24, 2006, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Disputing myself, please re-read this draxynnic
This is the first time I've used the link to post in the GW guru forums and also the first time ever I've used the link to post in the same topic.

draxynnic · Dec 26, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Good to know the sorting has had it's intended effect. Let me know if you think of any further subdivisions that can be introduced - the Miscellaneous category is still looking a little large for my liking.

Updated.

BahamutKaiser · Dec 27, 2006, 07:09 AM // 07:09

As far a sub divisions go, magic and magic related can include any number of effects, but doesn't realy establish a function type.

The best division of abilities is A) offensive, skills that do damage, B)defensive, skills that reduce or prevent damage, C) Offensive support/Sabatoge, skills that help damage dealers and weaken opponents, D) Defensive support/Healing, skills that protect allies survive and heal, and E)Mobility, skills that involve moving. As a side note, since familiar/pet/minion deployment is very unique that is also an acceptable sub catagory.

In this way you can pair up all skills that hex and disable foes into offensive support/sabatoge, like interruption and offensive boosts, you could also put the illusionary doubles into familiar control, and put many of the defensive boosting abilities into defensive support and healing.

You will find that nearly any ability will fall into one of those catagories, and most times, if they are not in one of those catagories, than they really arn't a new type of ability, like specialization, it isn't an ability or new function, it would have to be more specific like a class which gains (said) advantage using certain skills with the use of his primary attribute, like Enchantment lose rejuvination available from Dervish Primary, or Healing boost to monk spells cast on allies from monk primary. Without specifiying a kind of advantage it really isn't an idea or function, which is why it can't fall into a catagory.

actionjack · Dec 27, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Like said, its hard to find a new function to be added into GW, as most of the basic one are well cover. However, there are many ways to do one same function, which could fall into a sub catagory in the new ability or new mechanic department.

Anyhow, somehow feel like to write some more about the "Mob Control" function, so here goes.

This function don't really start to rear its head of the possible importantce and playblity till the recent mob update, in which mob become more "mobile" (or some would put it, head-less chicken). This make mob control, as sub-type of support, more appealing.

I would say mob-control could be divided more in to two. One is the movement control, another is lure, or hate, control.

Movement control would be one that would better control the movement of mob (or allie). While wards and cripple does well in that matter, the game could use more. Few good suggestion seen on the fourm include a geomancer type who could change ground to block enemy movement, a possible mount type who's large body also serve well to body-block, and a "sticky-string" type that tie up enemy movement and limit them how far they can go. Thats more of less a massive movement control, which is helpful to block advancing mob from your soft target, or to slow down soft target so they don't run away.

Another mob control type is a Lure, mind control type. Skill of that type is design to make mob come attack the target you want them to attack (be it yourself or themself), and not attack the target you don't want them to attack. Its a bit tricky, as Mind control, while easy to do in PvE, don't translate well into PvP, but the skill need to be of same effect. One mean that was deviced were skills which make you want to attck them. Hex like, it would have certain negative effect till they attack you (things like : suffer -5 energy regen to 10 seconds. effect end prematurely if you damage the caster) In that sense, it might work in PvP as well as PvE. Other mind contrl type are bit more tricky to do (like need to temporary change team, and such), but could be intersting to see or play.

Well... that just my opinion on things anyhow. Feel free to add on or comment if needed.